[Hpr] KISS principle

Ken Fallon ken.fallon at gmail.com
Wed Sep 29 06:27:42 PDT 2010

Hi Enigma,

Automation can be difficult but it is certainly possible, so long as the meta-
data is well formed so it can feed downstream systems. Once we figure out how
to automate the posting, then we can validate the input to ensure that invalid
meta-data is filtered out. The failed posts will of course need to be manually
posted but that is the same situation as now.

Of course I'd do development on my own server until such a time as you're
happy to phase it into production. If you're ok with that we can take the
discussion off line for a while.


On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 7:56 AM, E Nigma <eth0enigma at gmail.com> wrote:
> I can tell you from past experiences that any attempt to automate ends up in
> just being more manual work when people don't do it right. Just my two
> sense.
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 29, 2010, at 1:06 AM, Ken Fallon <ken.fallon at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I agree with the KIS principle but I also agree with the Unix philosophy
>> of
>> having programs that do one thing and do it well. The email list is great
>> for
>> communicating as the messages get to you wherever you are. On the other
>> hand a
>> wiki is better for collaborating because everything is in a central place
>> and
>> you know where to go. In my opinion it doesn't have to be either or. We
>> need
>> both. Now on to getting shows posted.
>> I'm not sure how the process works but I heard that Enigma needs to
>> manually
>> post every show. And he's been doing that for the last three years - ouch.
>> Given automating content ingestion plays a large part of my day job, I
>> feel a
>> bit embarrassed that I haven't offered to automate the process before now.
>> To make a long story short if you want to automate the process there needs
>> to
>> be metadata supplied with each show. In our case metadata is "Show title",
>> "Host" and "Shownotes" but it could be a lot more (see the TVAnytime spec
>> if
>> you don't believe me). If a host can supply that information in a agreed
>> format when they post a show then the rest can be automated.
>> The file could be uploaded with their show. We could also generate it from
>> a
>> online form that would allow metadata to be filled in and the episode to
>> be
>> uploaded via the same page.
>> After that the show can be released on the host's next scheduled day or if
>> there is no schedule for that host then it would be added to the first in
>> first out pool.
>> Anyone got any objections to this ?
>> On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:50 PM,  <s at deepgeek.us> wrote:
>>> Hi, Guys,
>>> Hope you don't mind me chiming in. Even though I may not be
>>> able to be a part of the HPR revival (only because I have
>>> my own problems reviving my own www.talkgeektome.us
>>> audiocast,) but I still love HPR and want to give feedback.
>>> Please don't forget the "Keep It Simple, Silly," principle.
>>> There is a lot of talk about wikis replacing this list.
>>> Email is both universal and easy, and you are dealing with
>>> wanting a lot of hosts. Keep it simple.
>>> Case in point is HPR's root problem getting from submission
>>> to posting. Sometimes "new and improved" systems are not
>>> that improved. I tried wordpress for my projects, and never
>>> got away from having to do some manual HTML anyway. This is
>>> really HPR's problem. If whoever invented it finds it
>>> to hard to even use himself, he should really reconsider.
>>> This thing, with a database backend, and posters spamming
>>> for their gambling and porn sites, must be too much if the
>>> people who put it in place won't even use it. People say I
>>> don't give examples, so let me show you how a posting of an
>>> episode would be done ideally.
>>> cp -v myep.mp3 /var/www/hackerpublicradio.org/eps/hprxxxx.mp3
>>> Every time you add complexity to that, you invite people
>>> either not being able to figure it out, or not having time
>>> to bother.
>>> This is not to say you don't need features or security. You
>>> need an RSS feed. You need a way to change the front page of the site
>>> for new episodes. After that, your forgetting "KISS".
>>> Lastly, formats. With the advent of $30 kmart ogg players,
>>> there is no more excuse. But still, keep it simple. Pick a
>>> format, and allow people to host another format at their
>>> own place if possible. The exception to consider is speex.
>>> Not everybody has fiber optic links to their homes, so a
>>> speex feed, even though unpopular, should be provided in
>>> spite of it's unpopularity just in the hopes that some poor
>>> slob who is stuck with slow internet has a chance.
>>> My opinions, mileage may vary and standard disclaimers
>>> apply,
>>> ---
>>> DG
>>>  On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 23:12:43 +0200
>>> Ken Fallon <ken.fallon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> It's great to hear all the positive feedback. So now
>>>> let's concentrate on making HPR steam along again. One of
>>>> the things I enjoy most about the feed is getting a new
>>>> show every day. I know Arron suggested dumping several
>>>> shows at once but I believe that "one show a day - every
>>>> day" builds trust and retains listeners. I'm not against
>>>> sending multiple shows down at the one time but I do like
>>>> the bargain of "tune in tomorrow for
>>>> something completely different".
>>>> First things first is to get the shows flowing again. I'd
>>>> also like echo Arron's offer to assist Enigma as I think
>>>> the time zone difference can give us some round the clock
>>>> coverage. I would also like to assist in automating the
>>>> process of posting the shows as much as possible. I say
>>>> this without having any knowledge of the underlying
>>>> systems but where possible we should try and have the
>>>> hosts populate the metadata for the feed.
>>>> Communication:
>>>> We need a place to communicate with the admins, other
>>>> correspondents and the community at large. We have this
>>>> mailing list but it's not publicized on the website nor
>>>> in the shows themselves. I would like to see a range of
>>>> options to give feedback because if we can get someone
>>>> interested enough to give feedback then that's the first
>>>> step to roping them into doing a show, and then another
>>>> etc. I like the idea of a wiki but whatever we decide on
>>>> we can publish it on the website as well as modifying the
>>>> Intro/Outro to include a getting involved message that
>>>> the hosts can refer to. Would oggcastplanet.org be the
>>>> official IRC or has Bin Rev some services to offer ?
>>>> Calendar:
>>>> I know some people hate the calendar while more people
>>>> love it so I suggest we just use a (google type) calendar
>>>> where correspondents can set up recurring episodes. While
>>>> anyone else can add a show for a particular day. If we
>>>> need to password protect against spammers we can add the
>>>> password to the getting involved message in the
>>>> Intro/outro.
>>>> Building a stock of episodes:
>>>> It would probably be a good idea to have a pool of
>>>> 'spare' episodes that go out when there is nothing else
>>>> available or when someone forgets to post. These might be
>>>> narrated by Lyn or Dan E. Speak (yes I have a script that
>>>> will take a URL and convert it to a HPR episode -
>>>> Klaatu.) or they might be a 'shot-of-hack' type show. To
>>>> encourage contribution we should have an area dedicated
>>>> to showing people how to record a show. Starting at the
>>>> "press record on your sansa" level, up through editing in
>>>> audacity. If there are links to other sites and tutorials
>>>> let's use them but at least have the information in one
>>>> place. It might be a good thing to have a place where
>>>> listeners can suggest a show topic. That way an expert in
>>>> that field can record a quick show if they like or if
>>>> you're simply devoid of inspiration do it yourself.
>>>> Feeds:
>>>> I know we agreed to do this before but it never came to
>>>> pass but we should offer a OGG/Vorbis feed. I also have a
>>>> script to convert audio to speex so a feed for that would
>>>> be cool as well. Given the CC license we could also
>>>> (automatically) cross-post to archive.org increasing our
>>>> exposure. In planning for my bash scripting series I've
>>>> been thinking that a multimedia feed would be a nice
>>>> feature, where one could add additional material like
>>>> show notes, cheat sheets, slides, pdf's  etc ?
>>>> Spreading the Word:
>>>> One of the most serious omissions of the current site is
>>>> the lack of a "who are we, what do we do page" to explain
>>>> what HPR is and what it's about. I know it's covered in
>>>> episode 1 but it would be good for the new
>>>> listener/contributer to know what we are and what we
>>>> stand for. The are some excellent promos for getting
>>>> listeners but we should also try and get some promos
>>>> requesting contributers. If we are going to do a relaunch
>>>> or "season 2" type deal, then it may be a good time to
>>>> get some hosts on to other shows to do interviews about
>>>> HPR. It would be nice to have downloadable material that
>>>> someone could use at a booth at at a hacker meetup. Does
>>>> anyone have a SVG version of the logo or even know who
>>>> made it ? Needless to say we can get publicity by
>>>> spreading the word on the micro blogging sites and
>>>> through groups on the social networking sites.
>>>> Ken.
>>>> HPR is dead. Long live HPR.
>>>> On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 3:15 PM, Klaatu
>>>> <gort.klaatu at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Well, just got back from Ohio Linux Fest, where we had
>>>>> a wildly successful Hacker Public Radio panel, with
>>>>> SigFLUP, Dave Yates, Dann from TLLTS, and
>>>>> Lord_Drachenblut as panelists.  People were into it,
>>>>> excited about it, and those who had never heard of it
>>>>> were really excited about the idea of a community show.
>>>>> I believe HPR is actually a lot healthier than you
>>>>> think it is.  i can't access the FTP server (my IP
>>>>> address gets blocked frequently, apparently due to an
>>>>> evil automagic iptable rule?) but if I could, I'd tell
>>>>> you exactly how many episodes were sitting there
>>>>> waiting to be posted.  I know for a fact that I have at
>>>>> least 9 (probably a low estimate) SELF interviews that
>>>>> have been sitting there for 3 months.  SigFLUP's field
>>>>> trip (ep 567 i think?) had been sitting for a month
>>>>> before posted.  Insert other examples here.
>>>>> I think what really 'needs' to happen is that the shows
>>>>> that exist need to be posted.
>>>>> So...the way I see it, either:
>>>>> 1. Someone who is not going to be blocked needs to log
>>>>> in and post episodes. 2. The posting process needs to
>>>>> be semi-automated or greatly simplified 3. I need ssh
>>>>> access or to get at least one ip address that I would
>>>>> log in from NOT blocked.
>>>>> And then HPR would start looking a lot healthier.
>>>>> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 5:50 PM, Arron Finnon
>>>>> <afinnon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Howdie Guys,
>>>>>> Late to the party on this thread but hell.  I'm in the
>>>>>> middle of trying to set up a week long series on HPR
>>>>>> with a live show at the end, just trying to draw some
>>>>>> people in.
>>>>>> TBH my whole issue is always about releases.  I have
>>>>>> stuff backed up in there for last years SFD (this
>>>>>> years is on Saturday)
>>>>>> I have to be honest and say that IMHO is what holds us
>>>>>> back, lots of great content not knowing if/when is a
>>>>>> pain.  My suggestion not matter how crazy it sounds is
>>>>>> to let hosts push their own shows out on HPR at a rate
>>>>>> they are happy with.  Yeah some days HPR fans are
>>>>>> going to have a bumper day, and some days its going to
>>>>>> be quite as hell.  I'm not saying there isn't any
>>>>>> creases to iron out with this idea, but put it this
>>>>>> way if you've done over 5 shows surely your trusted
>>>>>> enough to push a show out when ever, or dare i say
>>>>>> dust down the calendar and bring it back.
>>>>>> My 2 Cents, and you bet your ass you've been over
>>>>>> charged
>>>>>> Finux
>>>>>> p.s just realized chaining from googlemail.com to
>>>>>> gmail.com is not so cool for mailman
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Hpr mailing list
>>>>>> Hpr at hackerpublicradio.org
>>>>>> http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
>>>>> --
>>>>> ---
>>>>> uzu linukso. subtenu libera programaro.
>>>>> kotizu al http://www.thebadapples.info/ogg.xml
>>>>> http://www.fedorareloaded.com
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Hpr mailing list
>>>>> Hpr at hackerpublicradio.org
>>>>> http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Hpr mailing list
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>>>> http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
>>> --
>>> Deepgeek
>>> www.deepgeek.us My personal site-my older stuff.
>>> www.talkgeektome.us My "internet radio" show.
>>> RSS feeds available, multiple formats
>>> email me to be on email announce list for new shows
>>> _______________________________________________
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