This is Hacker Public Radio Episode 3,679 for Thursday the 8th of September 2022.
Today's show is entitled, Lionax and Law's Saiy, non-profits in the us-a-closer-look-it-ercs.
It is hosted by Monochromec and is about 36 minutes long.
It carries an explicit flag, the summary is, the inns and ounce of herbs.
This is look-it-laws, a podcast on topics around free and open-source software, any associated
contraband, communism, revolution in general, and whatever else, fans is vertical.
Please note that this and other episodes may contain strong language, offensive humor and
other certainly not politically correct language. You have been warned, our parents insisted
on this disclaimer, happy mum. That's the content is not suitable for consumption in the
workplace, especially when played back on a speaker in an open-plan office or similar environments.
Any miners under the age of 35, or any pets including fluffy little killer bunnies,
you trust the guy dog on their own speed, and cute T-rexes or other associated dinosaurs.
Martin, how are things? Hey, Chris, I think it's fine about everybody has COVID,
and I think it's called Rona, no, maybe I'm wrong, so I think it's either COVID-19
in contrast to 2021, I can't remember, or it's Corona, SARS, whatever, I can't forget.
Anyway, that's pretty much like politics or bad weather.
And before I forget, this is of course Linux in-laws, season 100, episode 2,758,
we changed the numbering scheme about the fortnight ago, if you want to catch our previous episodes
for your free. Of course, the website is Linux in-laws, so you will find the full back back
catalogue on that website. But this is not about it. Miss episodes, Martin, how are things
over there on the almost green aisle? Oh, it's very good.
It's a known as the kingdom. It's very green, yes, how are things interesting, um, hmm, something happened.
We are recording this on the 4th of July year 20, sorry, 21, 57, I think.
No, it's July 2022, but as much as I've recorded this on the 4th of July,
which is funny enough, something called the Tax Independence Day, originally named that is,
and something called the United States of America. Now known as Independence Day.
Yes, it obviously wasn't the United States of America back then, but yeah,
I mean, looking back, why did people go for independence to something, why did some extent
no, no, no, not just suddenly, okay, first and foremost, it was more than related to all the rest of it,
as you normally do. But then things happened in Boston Bay and all the rest of it,
and T was apparently thrown into the water, didn't make huge difference from a taste perspective,
I suppose because we're looking at, what's the way I'm looking for this, see what I write?
Yeah, personalism, no, it is close. Exactly, so never mind, the faint taste of T, I didn't make it
even, didn't last either, so, but what did last is actually the independence.
Yeah, so far, yeah, you can find it in some time, okay, exactly, you can find the details in any
history book, it's money, but given the fact that the UK are sorry that the key isn't the
key, it's heavily on the deep line from the broader political view of the world,
I don't think that the US is going back to British colony any time soon, we're wrong.
Probably not British, but some are some other candidates, right? Martin, I hate to spoil the
fun, but Russia never was, the British colony. Then the other way around, yeah, yes, yes, yes.
You mean that Russia will also be invades, it invades the UK, sorry, the kingdom unlikely,
because no, no, no, no, no, we were talking about the US being independent, right, so,
yeah, that had, yeah, it's all come to an end at some point, so, in terms of what?
Yeah, in terms of being no longer independent, whilst they're overrun by some country,
like what, Canada, Mexico, unlike, and I think if we can, well, it's it, yeah, it's not fair,
they're probably, I don't know how to do the Mexican population is, but it is fine.
But it's basically, it's going to, it's better be a NATO state, because otherwise the film,
the fifth, what is called paragraph will apply, not pleasant. So, for any people who are thinking
about invading the US, just, I think, perspective, please make sure that if you do the, that
if you want to do this, you do it from a NATO member state, only, because otherwise, you will have
to full force of NATO, right, from right against you, and that's something that you want to do.
Unless, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if you listen, if you listen,
either you are not exempt from the clause, so, don't, don't even think about it.
Okay, but this is not a show about the independence or invading the US, from a NATO member
state or not, this is actually one of the most important episodes to ever do, especially if you're
suffering from insomnia, very important. Only the, the episode, I reckon, on, on,
plus, lasting, come second, this episode, this will actually be on, on five or one sees,
as it's a show, yes, as you say, but go ahead. No, I'm very young, did, you said five or one see,
I thought you said five or one jeans. No, no, I may have done the wrong preparation.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, five or one sees our special type of organization in the US only
I might, I might add, and especially relevant from attacks on other, in some other perspective.
But as we will touch upon in about two hours, maybe two and a half hours time, once we have
left the foundation for the following discussion, quite a few open source and civil rights movements
filed or are classified as five or one sees. No, this is why, right, it may or may not be
important because we had the electronic funding, we had parts of the electronic funding foundation
on the podcast. We already had SSFE on the podcast, which is, of course, the European
sister organization of the free software foundation. And of course, we also had not exactly in the
order of priority or never mind importance. If you listen, we are also the, we are also
all beloved, Laura's Crow on the podcast, of course, representing the sick foundation and the
sick foundation if we call Markin, classifies as a five or one sees, sees six, but before we go
into the level of detail, we should probably first and foremost put in a disclaimer in, we are
by no means lawyers, we are by no means text control. I think that there will be a phrase is far
off from, it's exactly, every text control, it's similar to Markin's thing that we get in Markin,
for us to meet in Lisa. So, no, it's like, so the one we are learning comes up. Anyway,
so the following, of course, comes up with you, the caveat, please seek professional help
in these areas about that. If you are seriously thinking about setting up a five or one
see, whatever subtype applies, please, as I said, please do get professional help, links may
or may not be in the show notes. And of course, consultants, if you want to sponsor something called
limbs in law, see email, that's a sponsored line in green laws that are you, but without further
you, maybe before we go into the differences about five or one see, which should probably explain
the type of organization that a five or one see generally in general is before you, that
should probably say what it is, please go ahead. Well, so the five or one see is an American or
US tax code that looks specifically for tax exempt organizations in some way, for more shape.
Think about your, your charitable organizations, your education type,
organizations and their software foundations, who have non-profit goals, think about it.
Do you just mention the very important term, non-profit? Because most, if not all of these organizations
depending on their level of tax skills, I don't know. I don't do that. It do not make a profit,
but before we go into the details, there's one important difference. There are non-profit organizations
and not for profit organizations. Sorry, you want to, you want to explain the difference here.
Yeah, so the non-profit organizations are organizations that don't make any profit.
And the non-profit organizations are organizations that don't want to make profit.
But yes, you feel free to expand on them. No, a besport on, non-profit means basically
their income comes mostly from donations, charitable ones are not at, whereas the not for
profit organizations typically have some other, have some additional source of revenue.
And the main difference, if common law is anything to go by, normally not for profit
organizations, typically make some sort of tiny margin on the revenue, like anything between
two and five percent, whereas typically non-profits do not make any margin. And of course,
the margin being basically the difference between the cost charged for service and goods rendered
and the cost, the original cost of these services and goods in general. This is known in the trade,
typically as a margin, as a difference between stuff you buy. And then of course, also applies from
the services rendered by your labor force and the price at which you then sell any goods
resulting from the combined efforts of the of the services and goods originally bought.
This is typically as a card, a margin in the trade. Is it? Yes, very much. So if my economy
one or one not as anything to go by, they expect you about what 30 years back, I'll stop with
that. Okay, so fine. So we've defined that. So what about the people that work for these
organizations and pay for this? I would call them natters, but that doesn't capture it or reckon
nowhere, I mean, I would be people with some people who want to pay. No, this is a
people that they tax it all more.
Yeah, I mean, from a from a taxation perspective, you're looking at typically employees, right?
I mean, people are employed by the business. So yes, they would be taxed last of course, they do
nate some of the income back to the employers, which of course, then depending on the type of
for of our currency would be taxed deductible. Well, that may be. But I mean, not as it's
probably the wrong term. We're looking at people with strong ideals. Very important.
Okay, so don't they have things like state laws in the US as well? I think
part of one, see if memory self-script is a federal tax regime. Right. So as let's say,
California could decide all this tax these guys anyway. No, they couldn't because they were
to violate ours as internal revenue service guidelines, and which are these association
drugs. Kind of I can be a court. No, but I'm sure in the industry. That's the strike, protects us,
you have multiple, multiple taxes, right? You have federal tax and state tax, I'm sure.
Yes, Mike, but you see the RS basically is on the federal level. Yes.
Yeah, this is what I mean, so it's not so.
Feet stuff doesn't apply. So this favor one stuff only applies to the federal level.
Yes, I don't pay federal tax, but don't necessarily mention California can say,
oh, I'll be okay. I mean, if I want to eat, pay it's tax in it.
So you need to choose the right state as well. I reckon this is where our lack of tax
is the S-councy tax accountants. If you're listening,
it's epic. We talked about it in the US. Yes, the E-word. This is feedback and it is a lot of
that are you, especially to quench, Martin's thirst for knowledge. And it's no good state, therefore,
okay, the E-word is when he comes down to taxes. Before we go into too much detail,
why don't you give us some examples of organizations who have set up one of this,
or have successfully applied for this exception?
Before we do this, we should probably give you a short overview of the different subcategories
involved. It would make sense, right? So there's the Bradder term five or five or five or
one C, that is of course a federal IRS. And then you have subcategories ranging from one,
one, two, one, what is the A and B? You got the term one?
What is this? The loophole is basically that this episode is aptly titled five or
one C, so what does C apply? It's not the A, if you're not a slip and now Martin's just promise
to do an episode on the TV. Exactly.
There's no mental failure for you, yes.
The jokes aside, as I said in the beginning, we will go to the examples in a minute,
but that also will explain why it's this important from a US perspective.
So the thing is basically that if any RS website is anything to go by, we are looking
at about 29 subcategories under 501c, ranging from 1 to aplay 29.
The most important things that apply to the, and now we're getting back into the context,
that apply to the first world, and the first communities, would be 451c3,
and 501c6.
Okay, and we give you a message.
It is 119, these 3 and 6.
Yes, the TV talks about religious educational childhood scientific library,
literary testing for public safety, to foster national and international amateur sports
competition or prevention of cruelty to children or animals organizations,
that will be the 3 for you and 6 apparently.
Business leaks, chambers of commerce, real estate boards.
Just a couple of examples for these two subcategories.
Now, what is of course important?
If we take a look at the free software foundation, if we take a look at the electronic
frontier foundation, these are typically examples for 501c3s,
because they would fall into the scientific research educational.
Yeah, I can't agree.
Obviously software foundation.
Same thing, yes.
New Zealand, yes.
Whereas a 501c6 would be a trade association, typically the Linux foundation, for example,
which is funny enough, filed as a 501c6.
Then, because as we, as probably we all know,
those of who you are listening, the Linux foundation is an enterprise body of the community
on an enterprise level using Linux.
And now is the time as any to probably go into some of the details.
Rack arises, especially if 501c3s.
Okay, sorry.
It's not a question mark.
I like it.
More like a further characterization of a free.
Before we go into these sentences or the sixes,
if anybody's still awake.
Okay.
So, exactly.
So, for example, the RS also differentiates between a public and a private foundation
for a three and the difference is basically that the income for a public,
for a public foundation actually comes from the public.
Whereas the private foundation is powered by investments and endowments.
And that makes a difference, basically.
If you take a look at where your money actually comes from.
Also, the important difference between between a three and a sixes,
actually that if you donate to a five or one C three, these donations are tax deductible.
If they're charitable and are written with the electronic funding from the foundation,
and with the FSF, with the SSF, they would all classify as a priority.
Also, something important for a C three, these bodies are typically prohibited from supporting
political candidates. There's something called Jones Amendment adding back to 1954
that exactly prevents this or prohibits this.
So, if it becomes too apparent that you're supporting a political candidate,
you could lose or you could risk to lose.
Your five or one C three status, meaning then you're allowed to tax this.
And some other, you need to see the C sixes have to report their political involvement as well
in terms of money and stuff.
Yes, but I reckon if you're running a trade organization and C six typically is such a trade organization,
you can do a certain amount of additional lobbying.
And specifically, I mean, there's nothing in the end.
They're called that preventance C three from doing some subtle lobbying,
I reckon, with about donating to political campaigns, right?
Correct, yes. So, yeah, that means supporting political candidates,
exactly because that we're trying to support the money money in other words.
Exactly.
Yes.
So, these are some of the main difference between the C three and the N C six.
So, there's a few, there's a few other ones as well.
But please go ahead, if, if, if, if people are missing, I don't know.
Hi, who knows, you know, so your C three can't receive any grants for that number.
So, six can.
They have to report any, any donations over $5,000,
where's the C six doesn't?
So, it's also a fun like that, I mean.
Yeah.
So, what advice, if you want to learn or a million bucks through the C three,
you want to split this up?
In many, in many, in many more times.
Exactly.
That was like a bit quite similar, that's not a thing.
So, that you are flying at the radar and elegant the amount of that.
Okay.
Yes.
Before we come to the first context that we already touched upon.
Yes, churches, 401 C three, yes.
These typically also include religious bodies.
So, Richard, I'm sorry, I don't know if you're listening.
Of course, Richard, I'm storming being the Richard, I'm storming.
Also known as the same Ignatius of something of the Church of Emax.
Hmm.
Here you go.
Yes.
Come with me, anyway.
Right.
Much, much, much.
Or a lot.
Let's put it this way.
Well, one of the things that it's not wrong is, with me eyes.
I think that, I think that Emax emulation modes.
Well, excellent, progress is being made.
So, if the FSF wouldn't be, wouldn't be classified ever as a five or one C three.
At least the share of Emax could go for this.
From a theoretical perspective.
Well, Richard, what was our day?
Church of Emax.
It's essentially a church.
No, no, no, I mean, what state are they?
What do you mean, what state are they?
What do they have?
And I see three years.
Not yet.
No, that's what I'm saying.
Richard, if you're listening, this is your way out.
No, they don't get any money.
I don't get any money.
I'm bothered.
Yeah.
Well, apparently, it certainly says someone has joined the FSF board recently.
Again, yes.
Details may be in the show notes.
But I'm not sure what happened afterwards.
And we touched upon this, by the way, doing a doing the FSF episode.
And for those of, for those few listeners who miss out on this,
details are of course available in our background log.
So Martin, now it's probably the time, as good as any,
to touch upon why this all kind of makes sense from a first perspective at all.
Yes.
Especially if you happen to be a US resident or want to set this up in the US.
Because if you're thinking about setting up the next software conservatory,
software conservatory, or setting up the successor of the free software
for the future of software. More than likely, you are targeting the US because of money.
Well, you're not.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, yes, it's, if you're not targeting the US,
you can stop listening right now.
Yes.
If you're targeting the US, please listen.
Sorry, we have to be a really different number.
It's going to be a really different number.
It's going to be a really different number.
Exactly.
It's a totally, very similar.
Yeah.
The thing is, basically, the point that, that, that, that Martin must help you
are making is you want to choose your subcategory wisely in terms of
if you are slanting towards civil rights, like the, like the electrical,
electrical in front of your foundation or have more community aspects in your focus.
The C3 is probably something you want to go for.
If you are more like a trade party representation, like an industry body as
on flat this, this is six.
This is the thing you want to go for.
Yeah.
From a frost perspective.
Hmm.
Yeah.
If you're more interested in, let's say, educating people around.
Hope it's more to them.
Have you seen C3?
Yes.
So for those of you who are still who are still listening,
you need to say the question.
And any questions?
We free to send you feedback and it looks in last that a year.
What about legal?
It looks like.
Martin, if you haven't fought, then they may still be around.
Yes.
This is, say, we're not large.
And, and this Martin has fought, again, or a legal department last week or something.
We are not in a position to give, to give legal advice.
But we will do our best to answer any of your questions coming our way.
Given our limited capacity on the subject.
Hmm.
I mean, jokes on this was meant to be a version of you anyway.
Yeah.
So the fact that we're clocking in and what 30 minutes are written already or 28 or something.
This year.
Any boxes?
Oh, yes.
Yes.
Yes.
What's it called?
Sounds.
Oh, what is it called?
Oh.
Anyway, so I'll tell you what it's about personally.
Absolutely.
So Channel 4.
What is Channel 4?
What is Channel 4?
Channel 4.
What is it called?
Channel 4.
You know what the TV channel are you?
Yes.
You are.
I thought it went bankrupt.
Yeah.
What?
The series.
How does it look around?
Amazing.
Oh, yeah.
Anyway.
So I'll tell you what there has a new series called the Undertale War.
He was the Undertale War.
Undertale War, okay?
Which is set in 2024.
Well, GCHQ, that's in the edition of Donuts People.
Prevent some cyberattacks and stuff.
And that's by some foreign nations of unnamed origin.
And this guy I'm using with me a few objects.
But it's also correct.
As a story, it's quite good.
Well, well.
Okay.
The technical details probably leave it a little bit to be desired.
It's quite nicely done.
You can have a look at this.
Okay.
What's my pocket there?
There with me.
I just have to dig up the English translation for this.
Ah.
Yeah.
It's a famous German dish.
I've found it.
No.
I'm having it.
I've pushed far from it actually.
Definitely.
Okay.
Um.
It's got a full proud voice in this outfit.
And it's a form of something called in German.
Yeah.
Some reason.
Uh.
Uh.
Yeah.
Google made a failed attempt to call it napkin dumplings.
But.
It's a powerful book for this good name.
Uh, no.
Actually, um.
The American, someone working Webster that's a cause.
It's a vet in Canada.
It's apparently something.
It's a dumpling essentially.
Okay.
It's very tasty.
You've done with a with a mushroom sauce on a mushroom.
Yeah.
So, and I came across this about the other week.
When I had to to cook for for a relation of mine.
Yeah.
And you're not able to cook.
And details will not be in the show notes.
Um, but to fast it say that.
I've taken off another role of.
Of almost professional chef.
And now.
Okay.
Well, that's it.
I expect some cook.
Cook.
Cook.
Cook.
Let me.
Let me dig up.
That they're home made.
The result is yes.
No joke.
Besides, we're talking about my mother.
And my mother, a recent years for ill.
The role model of a son that I am.
I said, in of course, and with which roles.
Now she's in at the table.
And I'm cooking for her.
And this is the reason why I dug up this beautiful.
The event in Canada recipe.
Details will be in the show notes.
It's it's it's down to earth.
Jump specialty.
Essentially you're looking at a dumpling.
The dumpling made from old bread.
It's quite a few dumplings made of.
For example, the stuff you get in the area called.
It's a matter of fact, which literally translates into dumpling made from bread.
And I topped this off with a sauce made with fresh mushrooms.
And some.
Cream and some and some spices and herbs.
And as usual, that was both both our favorites are making.
Yeah, this is the reason why this is.
No, no, no, no, my pocket's not the week.
That's in the box.
Pick off the week, exactly.
And as I said, recipes will be or be recipe with the show notes.
So that Martin can surprise me with those cooking skills.
When I'm visiting him next time.
Well, clearly you will be served with a British dish.
Oh, fuck it.
Come to me by lukewarm beer.
Oh, dear.
No, Martin, that can please please go for your Dutch origins.
Okay, we don't have any feedback.
This is the email address still the same feedback.
It doesn't seem like what are you.
So if you have any feedback, people free free to send this.
Uh, just to that mail address.
Be cool.
We haven't from heard from you in ages.
So if you're still listening to a very lunar, what's that name?
The dead end that had been person?
We still miss we're still missing your feedback too.
Literally.
And but any other people free free to get in touch.
And with that, we would like to thank you for listening as usual.
Our hearts go our OHS.
It's very important.
People.
HPR is about to redo the website.
Yes, and they being in a proper source project.
They are looking for volunteers.
Details may have not been the show notes.
You've five, actually, some of the core discussion
on the H1Mail list.
Heck, I'm probably glad you're doing all this here.
Go to source for this.
So if you know any data, Martin, you come from a data
much background, no?
If you want me to just correct.
That look before, is it good people?
Again?
Yes, I already volunteered to do the API part.
Some people, jokes aside, if you have some spec records,
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And now can I didn't say it, and I didn't say podcast,
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I have a quick fire if I will one general knowledge question for me.
So I had my HP 501, what's it mean?
It's probably in server, it's probably in server or something.
It's not implemented.
There you go.
I seem to be 501.
Martin, you are the SMP, the expert for all of the two of us,
don't bother me with that stuff.
Okay, you got zero points, so.
I'm sorry.
Okay, what about Erie code 501 in the US,
which states it's that?
Oh no.
Why did we all over some switch to pub quizzes?
We were on the subject of follow-and-sees mark.
Oh, okay, okay, thank you very much, I hope we can speak with that.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay, and then what does five will one mean in Klingon?
Same question.
Oh, I think it's too leg which is that they speed it on beta doses on Klingon.
But go ahead.
Okay, if someone says five or one to you, what's the the closed thing that you associate
it with?
Five or one dollars?
Five or one dollars?
Five or one dollars?
Five or two cup of coffee?
Current inflation?
It's going.
Yeah, probably.
Now, I mean it could be also something I'm depending on your upbringing or context.
So, if you were to live in Arkansas, I would be at the phone number.
If you were, if you were, if you were a fan of dogs, that would be a dog's answer
for you.
Like, the genes will be live on this, right?
So, I don't know if you were into.
Is she to be a refugee?
Would be some Erika's.
Levi's, if you're listening.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
That's right.
That, of course, repeats the fact that Martin is almost as old as I am, because five or
once were popular in the 70s.
It's probably so correct.
Yeah, that was the 500.
The 500 one is actually a lot more than it's from the money.
Really?
Okay.
Yes.
So, to my backwards in numbers, I guess.
I don't know.
Okay.
People, you heard him first.
Martin is officially not older than I am.
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